Northwest Passage and The Vikings

[Possum]

First topic message reminder :

For years I argued with environs about the Vikings in the northwest passage and they denied that it ever happened. Well no matter how many times the foolish effing fools at Wikipedia rewrite history in their image and likeness they can't hide fact. Seams there is a new national park being formed on Ellesmere Island around a newly freed from ice ancient forest area that is sporting 6 foot diameter tree stumps of what is claimed to be Eastern Red Fir trees. That area is supposedly above the tree line so where did these stumps come from? UFOs maybe??

The environmentalists deny this has happened before (ice free north) but obviously its was ice free and being there are stumps up there indicating human involvement maybe the Polar Bears did survive during this ice free time; maybe the Vikings did travel through the Northwest Passage and just maybe the environmentalists are being proved to be money grabbing opportunists rather than valuable scientists.

There is also a great probability that the archeologists have finally discovered the site of an historical Viking settlement in the vicinity of the McKenzie River Delta which would give even greater credence to the claims by the Vikings that they historically traveled by boat all through that area.

[vinland]

Thank you Vinland for showing that if the Vikings had been transiting through an ice-free Arctic they would have written about it. They kept pretty meticulous logs.

chris, i think you missed my point, i cant figure out how to post a map, you post a map of greenland and the north west passage. then use marker, take the directions quoted below and see where you end up.

if they did they sail west to the pacific, they would likly have drawn a map.
like the vinland map of newfound land.

in the vinland sagas. they clearly sailed south to newfound.it does not take a brain surgeon to see this. just read the saga.

To find Vinland, one must imagine the Vikings perspective, In a time the southern Arctic Ocean was reliably open during the warm part of the year. Then the accounts in the sagas make sense.
Leif's account begins in 995, in Greenland. Lief tells his father, Erik the Red, how he was blown southward of course while in route from Iceland: He accidentally found two large Islands [today Newfoundland and Baffin island]and a part of north American mainland [probably Labrador, Which would have been well wooded in that warmer time]. He proposes to sail westward and explore what is obviously a large amount of new land. [Saga quotations are in the translation found in Farley Mowat's Far West.]

The saga continues..."They made their ship ready for sea ;when all was ready they sailed ...reaching an island which lay to the northward of the country[ the inhabited south of the west coast of Greenlnd . They went up and looked about in fine weather. After that they returned to their ship and sailed through the sound which lay between the island and that cape which projected northward from the land itself".
Heading northward [and a bit westward] from south Greenland [which is the only part of that huge island that was ever inhabited] the large island one reaches is plainly Baffin island; the translation doesn't tell me clearly if "they looked about them " refers to exploring one island or several."up there" seems to me to refer to the northward- projecting cape [ellesmere Island]. in any case, the sound they sailed through after exploring Baffin island and probably some nearby islands is known as Lancaster Sound.


"They sailed westward around the cape". contains the saga: and from the north end of Baffin Island it is basically westward all the way to the north cape -- Alaska, at point Barrow.

[Possum]

Vinland, he will never admit to the Vikings sailing the west side of the Arctic Ocean as this would make everyone aware that the claims put forth by the Climate Alarmists, such as himself, were pure unadultrated bullshit. I saw something about an archeology dig close to the MacKenzie Delta which is to explore a purported Viking settlement all those hundreds of miles from where the Alarmists claim was the furthest west the Vikings could possibly have gone.

He still hasn't explained my question about the tree stumps that are being exposed by the receding ice. Proves that not all that long ago

1) trees grew north and beyond areas where we comfortably thought they grew

2) man harvested these trees as evidenced by the stumps showing they were cut down and not just wind blowdown.

[chrisale]

Vinland, he will never admit to the Vikings sailing the west side of the Arctic Ocean

The day you or anyone provides proof, I'll 'admit' it. I'm sure the Viking Sagas have been interpreted by thousands of people in thousands of different ways, but there is only one interpretation that matches up with artifacts found on the ground, and that's nowhere near the Northwest Passage or the Pacific Ocean.

He still hasn't explained my question about the tree stumps that are being exposed by the receding ice.

Because all you've said... is that. Which is nothing. Give me something to go on. Where are they, what are they, who cut them down.

If you're going to disprove prevailing scientific theory then you gotta do better than your vague memories of television shows.

So Possum. Do you still think Larsen did both trips in one summer? Do you still think their voyages are equal to what the "Northern Passage" and "Peter 1" did in 2010?

[Possum]

Hell I still think the Vikings did it regular back about 2000 years ago. You grew up in the era where if it weren't on TV then it didn't happen. Now if it ain't in Wikipedia it didn't happen. I believe otherwise and that's it that's all.

BTW from watching some of the causational links the Alarmists post I am doubtful they really know what they are talking of. Just think you'll get a two month reprieve soon as we're heading out on an east west exploration of our own.

Anywho we do agree on the railroad but not the funding model. I'll change that too.

[chrisale]

Hell I still think the Vikings did it regular back about 2000 years ago. You grew up in the era where if it weren't on TV then it didn't happen. Now if it ain't in Wikipedia it didn't happen. I believe otherwise and that's it that's all.

LOL. Uh, aren't you the one who keeps saying you saw these reports on TV?

Give me the paper in NATURE or PNAS or NASA.

Other than that, have fun on your trip. Headed to Winnipeg?

It's supposed to be 26C today. The record for March 18 at the old Winnipeg Airport is 8.8C since 1938. The record for the month is 23C (March 27th 1946).

But lets keep arguing about alternative and completely unsubstantiated histories of Vikings instead of focusing on what actual scientific observations are telling us!

[TomW]

I never thought I would say this but I wish i was in Winnipeg right now.

[chrisale]

I never thought I would say this but I wish i was in Winnipeg right now.

I bet the mosquitos haven't even had a chance to hatch yet! (and if they do now, they'll get wiped out when the cold comes rushing back in in a week or two) Practically paradise... plus you can watch the Jets make the playoffs.

[Possum]

Hell I still think the Vikings did it regular back about 2000 years ago. You grew up in the era where if it weren't on TV then it didn't happen. Now if it ain't in Wikipedia it didn't happen. I believe otherwise and that's it that's all.

LOL. Uh, aren't you the one who keeps saying you saw these reports on TV?

Give me the paper in NATURE or PNAS or NASA.

Other than that, have fun on your trip. Headed to Winnipeg?

It's supposed to be 26C today. The record for March 18 at the old Winnipeg Airport is 8.8C since 1938. The record for the month is 23C (March 27th 1946).

But lets keep arguing about alternative and completely unsubstantiated histories of Vikings instead of focusing on what actual scientific observations are telling us!

[Possum]

Hell I still think the Vikings did it regular back about 2000 years ago. You grew up in the era where if it weren't on TV then it didn't happen. Now if it ain't in Wikipedia it didn't happen. I believe otherwise and that's it that's all.

LOL. Uh, aren't you the one who keeps saying you saw these reports on TV?

Give me the paper in NATURE or PNAS or NASA.

Other than that, have fun on your trip. Headed to Winnipeg?

It's supposed to be 26C today. The record for March 18 at the old Winnipeg Airport is 8.8C since 1938. The record for the month is 23C (March 27th 1946).

But lets keep arguing about alternative and completely unsubstantiated histories of Vikings instead of focusing on what actual scientific observations are telling us!

I saw something on a TV show while in Edmonton at the end of last month. I also read on a plane (on six different ones going to / from) so not sure which plane, but it was in the In Flite book about the stumps. Don't remember the name of the article.

[Possum]

ewwwwww...".Larsen went both ways in one summer.."

hmmmm..did he er did'nt he....

Any port in a storm eh sailor.....

You sure are hung up on sailors and ports and well.....????
Hi big fella.

[Admin]

ewwwwww...".Larsen went both ways in one summer.."

hmmmm..did he er did'nt he....

Any port in a storm eh sailor.....

You sure are hung up on sailors and ports and well.....????
Hi big fella.

No soliciting please Possum

[chrisale]

Hell I still think the Vikings did it regular back about 2000 years ago. You grew up in the era where if it weren't on TV then it didn't happen. Now if it ain't in Wikipedia it didn't happen. I believe otherwise and that's it that's all.

LOL. Uh, aren't you the one who keeps saying you saw these reports on TV?

Give me the paper in NATURE or PNAS or NASA.

Other than that, have fun on your trip. Headed to Winnipeg?

It's supposed to be 26C today. The record for March 18 at the old Winnipeg Airport is 8.8C since 1938. The record for the month is 23C (March 27th 1946).

But lets keep arguing about alternative and completely unsubstantiated histories of Vikings instead of focusing on what actual scientific observations are telling us!

I saw something on a TV show while in Edmonton at the end of last month. I also read on a plane (on six different ones going to / from) so not sure which plane, but it was in the In Flite book about the stumps. Don't remember the name of the article.

This is about the closest thing I can find. It's about the discovery of trees preserved on Ellesmere Island from 2 million years ago. A period when the Earth went from hot-house to ice-age. There were no humans up there at that time.

http://www.livescience.com/9128-2-million-year-mummy-trees-reveal-harsh-climate.html

When rangers came across mummified wood uncovered by a melting glacier in the northernmost Arctic reaches of Canada, they had no idea they were staring at an ancient forest dating back millions of years. Researchers eventually found a twisted tangle of preserved trees that reflects a harsh struggle to survive during an ancient global cooling period.

The spindly trees would have barely hung on during a time when the Arctic climate changed from greenhouse to icehouse, on top of enduring darkness for half of each year. Signs of stress are evident in narrow tree rings and undersized leaves that were preserved at the time of death – when a landslide may have buried the trees alive. [Image of mummy leaf]

"We know the climate was really hitting the fan for these guys," said Joel Barker, a biogeochemist at the Byrd Polar Research Center of Ohio State University.

Barker discussed the find here at the 2010 fall meeting of the American Geophysical Union. His group's discovery in Ellesmere Island National Park represents the northernmost mummified forest site in Canada.

[TomW]

They brought mice too!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57400094/study-viking-explorers-carried-stowaway-mice/

[vinland]

They brought mice too!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57400094/study-viking-explorers-carried-stowaway-mice/

it was not just mice but also cats.
http://nikdaum.com/coon/mainecoon.htm
these cats are found on the west coast as well , i worked at a camp down the darling river 20 years ago, the old guys running the camp lived there and two main coones walked out of the bush and made them selves at home.
lost cats or viking descendents,we will never know if we dont look into the evidance put in front of our eyes.

[vinland]

check out this article in the tyee.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/04/03/Did-Chinese-Discover-British-Columbia/

[Sponsored content]