Meeting tonight at Char's Landing please attend!

[lionking]

I was asked to come to the meeting tonight at Char's landing, there will be a very knowledgeable person who knows all about Coal. Our selves personally hope it doesn't happen!
This is my own opinion on this topic. Why would I want these big ugly trucks driving over the hump and, through our town delivering the dirtiest, most carbon-intensive fossil fuel on the planet?
This destructive choking dust is irreversible and, will continue to wreak havoc on the health of our community, like it has been doing to other communities all over the world!
Coal may be cheap, but the true cost is the price we will end up paying by sacrificing our health, our environment, and our future.

[booboo]

Ya know I think it's a lot of bullshit about the evil Coal Trucks...what makes them any worse than all the goddam Logging Trucks stealin our resources.....the Coal Trucks are covered so the ain't gonna be spreading dust all over...the Loading Facilites are covered.....sounds like a bunch of Stacy Gaiga N.I.M.B.Y.S. will be gathering At Chars....

[lionking]

[quote="lionking"]I was asked to come to the meeting tonight at Char's landing, there will be a very knowledgeable person who knows all about Coal. Our selves personally hope it doesn't happen!
This is my own opinion on this topic. Why would I want these big ugly trucks driving over the hump and, through our town delivering the dirtiest, most carbon-intensive fossil fuel on the planet?
This destructive choking dust is irreversible and, will continue to wreak havoc on the health of our community, like it has been doing to other communities all over the world!
Coal may be cheap, but the true cost is the price we will end up paying by sacrificing our health, our environment, and our future.

[quote]


Occupational health effects
Exposure to diesel exhaust and diesel particulate matter (DPM) is a known occupational hazard to truckers, railroad workers, and miners using diesel-powered equipment in underground mines. Adverse health effects have also been observed in the general population at ambient atmospheric particle concentrations well below the concentrations in occupational settings.
In March 2012, U.S. government scientists showed that underground miners exposed to high levels of diesel fumes have a threefold increased risk for contracting lung cancer compared with those exposed to low levels. The $11.5 million Diesel Exhaust in Miners Study (DEMS) followed 12,315 miners, controlling for key carcinogens such as cigarette smoke, radon, and asbestos. This allowed scientists to isolate the effects of diesel fumes.
Recently, concerns have been raised in the USA regarding children's exposure to DPM as they ride diesel-powered schoolbuses to and from school. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has established the Clean School Bus USA initiative in an effort to unite private and public organizations in curbing student exposures.

Diesel combustion exhaust is a major source of atmospheric soot and fine particles, which is a fraction of air pollution implicated in human cancer, heart and lung damage, and mental functioning. Diesel exhaust also contains nanoparticles, which have additional health impacts, and are as yet poorly understood.

Diesel particulate matter (DPM), sometimes also called diesel exhaust particles (DEP), is the particulate component of diesel exhaust, which includes diesel soot and aerosols such as ash particulates, metallic abrasion particles, sulfates, and silicates. When released into the atmosphere, DPM can take the form of individual particles or chain aggregates, with most in the invisible sub-micrometre range of 100 nanometers, also known as ultrafine particles (UFP) or PM0.
The main particulate fraction of diesel exhaust consists of fine particles. Because of their small size, inhaled particles may easily penetrate deep into the lungs. The rough surfaces of these particles makes it easy for them to bind with other toxins in the environment, thus increasing the hazards of particle inhalation.

Exposures have been linked with acute short-term symptoms such as headache, dizziness, light-headedness, nausea, coughing, difficult or labored breathing, tightness of chest, and irritation of the eyes and nose and throat. Long-term exposures can lead to chronic, more serious health problems such as cardiovascular disease, cardiopulmonary disease, and lung cancer. Ambient traffic-related air pollution was associated with decreased cognitive function in older men.[
Mortality from diesel soot exposure in 2001 was at least 14,400 out of the German population of 82 million, according to the official report 2352 of the Umweltbundesamt Berlin (Federal Environmental Agency of Germany).
The study of nanoparticles and nanotoxicology is still in its infancy, but the full health effects from nanoparticles produced by all types of diesel is still being uncovered. It is already clear enough, however, that the health detriments of fine particle emissions are severe and pervasive. Although one study found no significant evidence that short term exposure to diesel exhaust results in adverse extra-pulmonary effects, effects that are often correlated with an increase in cardiovascular disease, a 2011 study in The Lancet concluded that traffic exposure is the single most serious preventable trigger of heart attack in the general public, the cause of 7.4% of all attacks. It is impossible to tell how much of this effect is due to the stress of being in traffic and how much is due to exposure to exhaust.
Since the study of the detrimental health effects of nanoparticles (nanotoxicology) is still in its infancy, and the nature and extent of negative health impacts from diesel exhaust continues to be discovered.
Variation with engine conditions
The types and quantities of nanoparticles can vary according to operating temperatures and pressures, presence of an open flame, fundamental fuel type and fuel mixture, and even atmospheric mixtures. As such, the resulting types of nanoparticles from different engine technologies and even different fuels are not necessarily comparable. In general, the usage of biodiesel and biodiesel blends results in decreased pollution. One study has shown that the volatile component of 95% of diesel nanoparticles is unburned lubricating oil. Long term effects still need to be further clarified, as well as the effects on susceptible groups of people with cardiopulmonary diseases.
Diesel engines can produce black soot (or more specifically diesel particulate matter) from their exhaust. The black smoke consists of carbon compounds that were not combusted, because of local low temperatures where the fuel is not fully atomized. These local low temperatures occur at the cylinder walls, and at the outside of large droplets of fuel. At these areas where it is relatively cold, the mixture is rich (contrary to the overall mixture which is lean). The rich mixture has less air to burn and some of the fuel turns into a carbon deposit. Modern car engines use a diesel particulate filter (DPF) to capture carbon particles and then intermittently burn them using extra fuel injected directly into the filter. This prevents carbon buildup at the expense of wasting a small quantity of fuel.
The full load limit of a diesel engine in normal service is defined by the "black smoke limit", beyond which point the fuel cannot be completely combusted. As the "black smoke limit" is still considerably lean of stoichiometric, it is possible to obtain more power by exceeding it, but the resultant inefficient combustion means that the extra power comes at the price of reduced combustion efficiency, high fuel consumption and dense clouds of smoke. This is only done in specialized applications (such as tractor pulling competitions) where these disadvantages are of little concern.
When starting from cold, the engine's combustion efficiency is reduced because the cold engine block draws heat out of the cylinder in the compression stroke. The result is that fuel is not combusted fully, resulting in blue and white smoke and lower power outputs until the engine has warmed. This is especially the case with indirect injection engines, which are less thermally efficient. With electronic injection, the timing and length of the injection sequence can be altered to compensate for this. Older engines with mechanical injection can have mechanical and hydraulic governor control to alter the timing, and multi-phase electrically controlled glow plugs, that stay on for a period after start-up to ensure clean combustion—the plugs are automatically switched to a lower power to prevent their burning out.
Particles of the size normally called PM10 (particles of 10 micrometres or smaller) have been implicated in health problems, especially in cities. Some modern diesel engines feature diesel particulate filters, which catch the black soot and when saturated are automatically regenerated by burning the particles.
All diesel engine exhaust emissions can be significantly reduced by using biodiesel fuel.
Effect of engine lubricating oil
The volatile component of 95% of diesel nanoparticles is unburned lubricating oil. Long term effects still need to be further clarified, as well as the effects on susceptible groups of people with cardiopulmonary diseases.
Chemical components
Diesel engines produce very little carbon monoxide as they burn the fuel in excess air even at full load, at which point the quantity of fuel injected per cycle is still about 50 percent lean of stoichiometric.
This is a list of chemical components that have been found in diesel exhaust.
Contaminant Note
acetaldehyde IARC Group 2B carcinogens
acrolein IARC Group 3 carcinogens
aniline IARC Group 3 carcinogens
antimony compounds Toxicity similar to arsenic poisoning
arsenic IARC Group 1 Carcinogens, endocrine disruptor
benzene IARC Group 1 Carcinogens
beryllium compounds IARC Group 1 Carcinogens
biphenyl It has mild toxicity.
bis(2-ethylhexyl)phthalate endocrine disruptor
1,3-butadiene IARC Group 2A carcinogens
cadmium IARC Group 1 Carcinogens, endocrine disruptor
chlorine
chlorobenzene It has "low to moderate" toxicity.
chromium compounds IARC Group 3 carcinogens
cobalt compounds
cresol isomers
cyanide compounds
dibutyl phthalate endocrine disruptor
1,8-dinitropyrene Carcinogen
dioxins and dibenzofurans
ethyl benzene
formaldehyde IARC Group 1 Carcinogens
inorganic lead endocrine disruptor
manganese compounds
mercury compounds IARC Group 3 carcinogens
methanol It may cause blindness.
methyl ethyl ketone It may cause birth defect.
naphthalene IARC Group 2B carcinogens
nickel IARC Group 2B carcinogens
3-Nitrobenzanthrone One of the strongest carcinogens known
4-nitrobiphenyl
phenol endocrine disruptor
phosphorus
polycyclic organic matter, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)
propionaldehyde
selenium compounds IARC Group 3 carcinogens
styrene IARC Group 2B carcinogens
toluene IARC Group 3 carcinogens
xylene isomers and mixtures: o-xylenes, m-xylenes, p-xylenes IARC Group 3 carcinogens

Some problems associated with the exhaust gases (nitrogen oxides, sulfur oxides) can be mitigated with further investment and equipment; some diesel cars now have catalytic converters in the exhaust.
All diesel engine exhaust emissions can be significantly reduced by using biodiesel fuel. Oxides of nitrogen do increase from a vehicle using biodiesel, but they too can be reduced to levels below that of fossil fuel diesel, by changing fuel injection timing.
Occupational effects

Exposure to diesel exhaust and diesel particulate matter (DPM) is a known occupational hazard to truckers, railroad workers, and miners using diesel-powered equipment in underground mines. Adverse health effects have also been observed in the general population at ambient atmospheric particle concentrations well below the concentrations in occupational settings.
In March 2012, U.S. government scientists showed that underground miners exposed to high levels of diesel fumes have a threefold increased risk for contracting lung cancer compared with those exposed to low levels. The $11.5 million Diesel Exhaust in Miners Study (DEMS) followed 12,315 miners, controlling for key carcinogens such as cigarette smoke, radon, and asbestos. This allowed scientists to isolate the effects of diesel fumes.
Recently, concerns have been raised in the USA regarding children's exposure to DPM as they ride diesel-powered schoolbuses to and from school. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has established the Clean School Bus USA initiative in an effort to unite private and public organizations in curbing student exposures.

Although the US Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) issued a health standard in January 2001 designed to reduce exposure in underground metal and nonmetal mines, on September 7, 2005, MSHA published a notice in the Federal Register proposing to postpone the effective date from January 2006 until January 2011.
To rapidly reduce particulate matter from heavy-duty diesel engines in California, the California Air Resources Board created the Carl Moyer Program to provide funding for upgrading engines ahead of emissions regulations. In 2008 the California Air Resources Board also implemented the 2008 California Statewide Truck and Bus Rule which requires all heavy-duty diesel trucks and buses, with a few exceptions, that operate in California to either retrofit or replace engines in order to reduce diesel particulate matter.

Diesel particulate filter
Automobile emissions control
Carl Moyer Program
National Emissions Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants
List of IARC Group 1 carcinogens
List of IARC Group 2A carcinogens
List of IARC Group 2B carcinogens
List of IARC Group 3 carcinogens

Diesel Retrofit in Europe.
NIOSH Mining Safety and Health Topic: Diesel Exhaust
Diesel Particulate Matter, a case study at www.defendingscience.org
Clean School Bus USA, EPA Initiative
Weight of the Evidence or Wait for the Evidence? Protecting Underground Miners from Diesel Particulate Matter Article by Celeste Monforton. American Journal of Public Health, February 2006.
Diesel exhaust -- peer reviewed studies by Health Effects Institute
U.S. Department of Labor Occupational Safety & Health Administration: Safety and Health Topics: Diesel Exhaust
Partial List of Chemicals Associated with Diesel Exhaust
Diesel Exhaust Particulates: Reasonably Anticipated to Be A Human Carcinogen
Scientific Study of Harmful Effects of Diesel Exhaust: Acute Inflammatory Responses in the Airways and Peripheral Blood After Short-Term Exposure to Diesel Exhaust in Healthy Human Volunteers
Diesel exhaust: what you need to know

^ Attfield, M. D.; Schleiff, P. L., Lubin, J. H., Blair, A., Stewart, P. A., Vermeulen, R., Coble, J. B., Silverman, D. T. (5 March 2012). "The Diesel Exhaust in Miners Study: A Cohort Mortality Study With Emphasis on Lung Cancer". JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute. doi:10.1093/jnci/djs035.
^ Silverman, D. T.; Samanic, C. M., Lubin, J. H., Blair, A. E., Stewart, P. A., Vermeulen, R., Coble, J. B., Rothman, N., Schleiff, P. L., Travis, W. D., Ziegler, R. G., Wacholder, S., Attfield, M. D. (5 March 2012). "The Diesel Exhaust in Miners Study: A Nested Case-Control Study of Lung Cancer and Diesel Exhaust". JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute. doi:10.1093/jnci/djs034.
^ Power, Weisskopf, Alexeeff, Coull, Spiro, Schwartz Traffic-Related Air Pollution and Cognitive Function in a Cohort of Older Men PMID 21172758 . Full free text: http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/info:doi/10.1289/ehp.1002767
^ http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/isth2005/abstract.asp?id=46528 Exposure to Diesel Nanoparticles Does Not Induce Blood Hypercoagulability in an at-Risk Population (Abstract)
^ Nawrot, Perez, Künzli, Munters, Nemery Public health importance of triggers of myocardial infarction: comparative risk assessment The Lancet Volume 377, Issue 9767, Pages 732 - 740, 26 February 2011 http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2962296-9/abstract doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(10)62296-9
"Taking into account the OR and the prevalences of exposure, the highest PAF was estimated for traffic exposure (7.4%)... "
"… [O[dds ratios and frequencies of each trigger were used to compute population-attributable fractions (PAFs), which estimate the proportion of cases that could be avoided if a risk factor were removed. PAFs depend not only on the risk factor strength at the individual level but also on its frequency in the community. ... [T]he exposure prevalence for triggers in the relevant control time window ranged from 0.04% for cocaine use to 100% for air pollution. ... Taking into account the OR and the prevalences of exposure, the highest PAF was estimated for traffic exposure (7.4%) ...
^ On-line measurements of diesel nanoparticle composition and volatility
^ http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S1352-2310(02)01017-8 On-line measurements of diesel nanoparticle composition and volatility
^ Diesel Exhaust Toxicants mindfully.org
^ Attfield, M. D.; Schleiff, P. L., Lubin, J. H., Blair, A., Stewart, P. A., Vermeulen, R., Coble, J. B., Silverman, D. T. (5 March 2012). "The Diesel Exhaust in Miners Study: A Cohort Mortality Study With Emphasis on Lung Cancer". JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute. doi:10.1093/jnci/djs035.
^ Silverman, D. T.; Samanic, C. M., Lubin, J. H., Blair, A. E., Stewart, P. A., Vermeulen, R., Coble, J. B., Rothman, N., Schleiff, P. L., Travis, W. D., Ziegler, R. G., Wacholder, S., Attfield, M. D. (5 March 2012). "The Diesel Exhaust in Miners Study: A Nested Case-Control Study of Lung Cancer and Diesel Exhaust". JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute.

[lionking]

Coal Dust is Complicated but Real Problem
At the City Club presentation one of SSA Marine’s hired guns challenged me on the coal dust issue. His challenge to me was basically that if I were to find that the Northwest Clean Air Agency (please see New Business section of Board minutes) had never had a complaint about coal dust, would I stop my “rhetoric” about the problems with coal dust? The simple answer is: No, of course not. The challenge was clever on a certain level, but disingenuous because of the nature of coal dust and how and where it has an impact. Coal dust—in this context—is more of a water quality issue than an air quality issue (please see Seward, Alaska).

Coal dust is a complicated issue that impacts different systems in different ways at different levels and at different times. For instance, coal dust is considered a toxic substance by multiple agencies and organizations when inhaled by humans. Most people are familiar with “black lung disease” that afflicts coal miners and residents in coal towns. But these effects require large amounts of dust in a confined space over a long period of time. RE Sources has never mentioned black lung disease as a possible public impact of the Cherry Point coal terminal project.

Coal dust in the context of this Cherry Point project is a problem 1) near the mines where it spews from open rails cars in a visible dust cloud; 2) when the trains are traveling at-speed or when vortices are created by other trains, man-made surfaces, or geological formations; and 3) when it is unloaded from trains, manipulated, and loaded on ships at the terminal. That is not to say that fugitive coal dust is benign or absent at other stages in its journey from the mine to furnace to atmosphere, but these are the most important and most impactful.

Coal dust around the mines and in the first stages of transport is expelled at a monumental rate. That means that coal dust piles up along rail lines and coats the landscape for hundreds of miles from the mines. BNSF is currently in litigation with energy companies and mine operators over the dust issue as it fouls rail line ballast—the rocks placed around the rails and ties to allow proper drainage—and is thought by some to contribute eventually to derailments. This region will not experience this phenomenon, but it is one of the broader impacts of this proposed project and should be considered in a responsible analysis of impacts.

Coal dust lifting off of moving trains has been studied in the US, Canada, and Australia with similar results. Work cited in an Australian study, for instance, indicated that dust loss was very wind speed dependent with coal dust being expelled at wind speeds as low as 20 kilometers per hour (13.4 mph) and increasing nearly exponentially as speed of wind across load increases (i.e., dust loss doubles between 25 mph and 40 mph and triples between 25mph and 50 mph). The same paper cited studies that indicated that dust increased when trains passed each other and when trains traveled through tunnels or along cliff faces; in other words any conditions that caused wind vortices.


Photo Credit Paul K. Anderson, Chuckanut Conservancy
Dust expelled during transit at cross load wind speeds in excess of 20 kilometers per hour is deposited near the tracks. And while it likely causes little in the way of human impacts and is often difficult to detect, the dust impacts vegetative growth cycles and the diversity of plants, changes soil chemistry, and washes into waterways where it can physiological and genetic impacts on species such as salmon. The level of damage to plants, soil, and water is dependent on the amount of dust and its chemical composition. Coal dust around the Lambert’s Point Coal Terminal, for instance, has added detectable amounts of arsenic to the soils around the terminal. In any case, coal dust in waterways tends to remove oxygen from the water column and that is not good for wetlands or aquatic creatures.

Fugitive coal dust expelled at locales more than 100 miles from the mines is frequently discounted by terminal project proponents, but the phenomenon is very real to the folks who experience it. Although it is mostly characterized as a nuisance rather than a human health issue, people’s lives are changed by it. Organic gardens are fouled, pools and outdoor spaces are speckled with dust, and boats and marinas are blackened on decks and at the waterline.

Coal terminals and other facilities that move or handle coal around the world face complaints about coal dust from Australia to India and from Seward, Alaska to Mobile, Alabama. That also goes for those closer to home as well like Robert’s Bank near Vancouver, BC and Ridley Terminal near Prince Rupert in the same province. Even when the facilities are doing all that they can to reduce dust, the sheer mechanics of handling or moving millions of metric tons of coal creates dust that even the most sophisticated dust control systems can only reduce but not control completely. The areas in and around coal terminals, storage facilities, and coal fired power plants suffer as a result and as a result people react to the prospect of coal terminals again, and again, and again.

McDuffie Terminal in Mobile, AL - Currently the largest facility of its kind in North America

Cherry Point project proponents would love to discount and cloud this issue. They claim that their facility will deal with dust in a manner that is better than all other facilities in the world. But when asked about how they will accomplish that monumental feat while moving more materials through the same operational footprint, they are a little short on details and proven methodologies. They simply ask us to trust them and that is just not good enough.

[lionking]

Coal Dust is Complicated but Real Problem
At the City Club presentation one of SSA Marine’s hired guns challenged me on the coal dust issue. His challenge to me was basically that if I were to find that the Northwest Clean Air Agency (please see New Business section of Board minutes) had never had a complaint about coal dust, would I stop my “rhetoric” about the problems with coal dust? The simple answer is: No, of course not. The challenge was clever on a certain level, but disingenuous because of the nature of coal dust and how and where it has an impact. Coal dust—in this context—is more of a water quality issue than an air quality issue (please see Seward, Alaska).

Coal dust is a complicated issue that impacts different systems in different ways at different levels and at different times. For instance, coal dust is considered a toxic substance by multiple agencies and organizations when inhaled by humans. Most people are familiar with “black lung disease” that afflicts coal miners and residents in coal towns. But these effects require large amounts of dust in a confined space over a long period of time. RE Sources has never mentioned black lung disease as a possible public impact of the Cherry Point coal terminal project.


Coal dust in the context of this Cherry Point project is a problem 1) near the mines where it spews from open rails cars in a visible dust cloud; 2) when the trains are traveling at-speed or when vortices are created by other trains, man-made surfaces, or geological formations; and 3) when it is unloaded from trains, manipulated, and loaded on ships at the terminal. That is not to say that fugitive coal dust is benign or absent at other stages in its journey from the mine to furnace to atmosphere, but these are the most important and most impactful.


Coal dust around the mines and in the first stages of transport is expelled at a monumental rate. That means that coal dust piles up along rail lines and coats the landscape for hundreds of miles from the mines. BNSF is currently in litigation with energy companies and mine operators over the dust issue as it fouls rail line ballast—the rocks placed around the rails and ties to allow proper drainage—and is thought by some to contribute eventually to derailments. This region will not experience this phenomenon, but it is one of the broader impacts of this proposed project and should be considered in a responsible analysis of impacts.

Coal dust lifting off of moving trains has been studied in the US, Canada, and Australia with similar results. Work cited in an Australian study, for instance, indicated that dust loss was very wind speed dependent with coal dust being expelled at wind speeds as low as 20 kilometers per hour (13.4 mph) and increasing nearly exponentially as speed of wind across load increases (i.e., dust loss doubles between 25 mph and 40 mph and triples between 25mph and 50 mph). The same paper cited studies that indicated that dust increased when trains passed each other and when trains traveled through tunnels or along cliff faces; in other words any conditions that caused wind vortices.


Photo Credit Paul K. Anderson, Chuckanut Conservancy
Dust expelled during transit at cross load wind speeds in excess of 20 kilometers per hour is deposited near the tracks. And while it likely causes little in the way of human impacts and is often difficult to detect, the dust impacts vegetative growth cycles and the diversity of plants, changes soil chemistry, and washes into waterways where it can physiological and genetic impacts on species such as salmon. The level of damage to plants, soil, and water is dependent on the amount of dust and its chemical composition. Coal dust around the Lambert’s Point Coal Terminal, for instance, has added detectable amounts of arsenic to the soils around the terminal. In any case, coal dust in waterways tends to remove oxygen from the water column and that is not good for wetlands or aquatic creatures.

Fugitive coal dust expelled at locales more than 100 miles from the mines is frequently discounted by terminal project proponents, but the phenomenon is very real to the folks who experience it. Although it is mostly characterized as a nuisance rather than a human health issue, people’s lives are changed by it. Organic gardens are fouled, pools and outdoor spaces are speckled with dust, and boats and marinas are blackened on decks and at the waterline.

Coal terminals and other facilities that move or handle coal around the world face complaints about coal dust from Australia to India and from Seward, Alaska to Mobile, Alabama. That also goes for those closer to home as well like Robert’s Bank near Vancouver, BC and Ridley Terminal near Prince Rupert in the same province. Even when the facilities are doing all that they can to reduce dust, the sheer mechanics of handling or moving millions of metric tons of coal creates dust that even the most sophisticated dust control systems can only reduce but not control completely. The areas in and around coal terminals, storage facilities, and coal fired power plants suffer as a result and as a result people react to the prospect of coal terminals again, and again, and again.

McDuffie Terminal in Mobile, AL - Currently the largest facility of its kind in North America

Cherry Point project proponents would love to discount and cloud this issue. They claim that their facility will deal with dust in a manner that is better than all other facilities in the world. But when asked about how they will accomplish that monumental feat while moving more materials through the same operational footprint, they are a little short on details and proven methodologies. They simply ask us to trust them and that is just not good enough.

[Possum]

Boo Boo, you nailed it. Four pages of unexpurgated bullshit and most from the idiot web site put forth as science by the idiot of 'coal watch' and his minions.

[lionking]

Ya know I think it's a lot of bullshit about the evil Coal Trucks...what makes them any worse than all the goddam Logging Trucks stealin our resources.....the Coal Trucks are covered so the ain't gonna be spreading dust all over...the Loading Facilites are covered.....sounds like a bunch of Stacy Gaiga N.I.M.B.Y.S. will be gathering At Chars....

When I read your post I was shocked! I don't know why my post brought out so much hostility in you?
I don't even know a Stacy Gaiga or anything about the person! Just like I don't know you or anything about you!
You couldn't help noticing your opinion RE: logging trucks, I am not being smart are logging trucks also dangerous to your health? If they are then I would also have a say about them. And how will the coal trucks be stealing our resources? I also didn't know that?
What I know for sure after a lot of reading and, asking questions seeing video's of Coal trains and, Coal trucks uncovered and, coal dust flying out of them we had better hope, that coal dust is health! Imo it is not and I say that again for all the things I said in my first post!
To me it's like the Smart Meters, if they could guarantee even 90% safety then I wouldn't care as much but, they will not guarantee anything other than to say they are safe.

[chrisale]

I get where your coming from. All the other trucks are far from without blame for the damage to our roads, the coal trucks simply tip the scale.... Actually it's more like they bowl it right over into the ditch.

The flyer in the News was, for the most part, well done. I've picked apart their claims before, and everything that I've picked apart seems to be missing... Leaving only the real issues from the mine activity.

Whethere it's logging, mining, or oil and gas, this province is exporting it without any thought to the effect on our transportation network, or health, or our future economic needs. Its all sectors, not just mining, and it is the culmination of 30 years of government policy. (all parties)

Either it will be stopped by people who finally stand and say ENOUGH or it will be stopped by those resources simply being exhausted. (certainly possible in the case of forestry)

None of this is an attack on the people transporting the goods. They have a job to do. This is about government policy and deciding not only who should work, but how work should be done.

[booboo]

Jesus..... LionKing ya spewed on about Diesel Exhaust for a few paragraphs...do yu even read what yu post????....yes indeed...Logging Trucks are powered by Diesel ..just like Coal trucks...uhhh Coal would be a 'Resource'.....just like Logs are...me thinx yer out ta lunch......sorry......

Chris I hear what you are saying and yes you do make sense.....

[lionking]

I get where your coming from. All the other trucks are far from without blame for the damage to our roads, the coal trucks simply tip the scale.... Actually it's more like they bowl it right over into the ditch.

The flyer in the News was, for the most part, well done. I've picked apart their claims before, and everything that I've picked apart seems to be missing... Leaving only the real issues from the mine activity.
Whethere it's logging, mining, or oil and gas, this province is exporting it without any thought to the effect on our transportation network, or health, or our future economic needs. Its all sectors, not just mining, and it is the culmination of 30 years of government policy. (all parties)

Either it will be stopped by people who finally stand and say ENOUGH or it will be stopped by those resources simply being exhausted. (certainly possible in the case of forestry)

None of this is an attack on the people transporting the goods. They have a job to do. This is about government policy and deciding not only who should work, but how work should be done.

IMO until these two problems change nothing will ever be ok! #1 Hugh problem Politicians tell lies! # 2 Hugh problem is how do you make them stop? #3 Hugh problem I don't think it's possible

This has happened to me and I have seen it happen to other people. People will completely avoid a question(s) you pick apart, because they know you are right.

Over 32 years we have watched the damage to Beaver Creek Road from logging trucks, trucks hauling big excavators and dump trucks!
Here's an example I believe it was 5/6 years ago now that Beaver Creek road was widened, paved, and they fixed the 2nd double dip again. It was so nice having the extra room and, a place that was level to turn into your yard!
We noticed the pavement started breaking down just after a year, it became a awful mess with pot wholes, that had gotta dangerous and, continually need to be repaired!
These companies should pay a road tax and, it should be put into the bank, collecting compounded interest, to be used for the next paved job from these Trucks. As it is all they do now is keep patching up the road!

You are correct Chris when you say the forest resources are depleting. What else is their left after all the fish are toxic and we can't eat them!
I thought about this for years and brought it up at a meeting, that we should start packaging and, freezing our own fruit and vegetables, we have plenty of land around and, that would put a lot of people to work!

Maybe now that we are in with the ACRD and, have our water shed 100% paid for by grant money, let's ask if we could get money from a grant to start a factory here in Port Alberni! Asking doesn't hurt, not asking is doing nothing and, doing nothing is what hurts!

I agree Chris people have to stand up and say something! My friend and I did!
[color=blue]We are two Women that have changed history twice! The first time was when the Government legislated the way water was going to be handled all across Canada! We both have a letter from Ombudsman, and the Book showing my letter and, how this all came about.
The second time will be June 1, 2012 when we are in with the Alberni Clayquot Regional District (ACRD).
Every time I thing that we wouldn't be in with the ACRD June 1, 2012, if I hadn't said to my friend, we need to do the referendum!!! And she said ok and the rest is down in the history book. Or shall I say will be soon!

I remember way back hearing that when automation takes over, 1/2 the people will have be to work and, the other 1/2 will have to stay home.
Everyone needs a job, how else are they going to survive? The violence is getting worse

[lionking]

Jesus..... LionKing ya spewed on about Diesel Exhaust for a few paragraphs...do yu even read what yu post????....yes indeed...Logging Trucks are powered by Diesel ..just like Coal trucks...uhhh Coal would be a 'Resource'.....just like Logs are...me thinx yer out ta lunch......sorry.....

Chris I hear what you are saying and yes you do make sense.....

Don't be sorry you are stating your opinion and, like I always do I will keep in mind what I like about what you wrote and, disregard what I don't like. And let it be known I agree that the diesel thing was a little to long ya tink.

[lionking]

Jesus..... LionKing ya spewed on about Diesel Exhaust for a few paragraphs...do yu even read what yu post????....yes indeed...Logging Trucks are powered by Diesel ..just like Coal trucks...uhhh Coal would be a 'Resource'.....just like Logs are...me thinx yer out ta lunch......sorry.....

Chris I hear what you are saying and yes you do make sense.....

Don't be sorry you are stating your opinion and, like I always do I will keep in mind what I like about what you wrote and, disregard what I don't like. And let it be known I agree that the diesel thing was a little to long ya tink.

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